Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. LOL. 54. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). Reinstall the auto-tensioner (chain case) cover. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . Your email address will not be published. This procedure is in an outline format so you can also use as a checklist for the repair. Jan 7, 2014. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Sounds like it's your issue. If any seals are damaged, replace them. 2. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. full of oil when engine is off. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. 29. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. Welcome Guest! The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? 38. Subscribe for updates! Recommended Services. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. I often lurk but this is my first official post. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). front mid section. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. Wait 3 seconds. Feb 4, 2013 Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. How much does it cost to replace a timing chain on a 2013 BMW X3? over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. JavaScript is disabled. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. In the best case, you wont gain anything. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . Im the same way. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. Published, Your email address will not be published. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. What can go wrong? could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. May 23, 2011. Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. We know some methods! By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 33. This guarantees that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the critical components before starting. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Would like to do that test myself. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. 35. Your email address will not be published. Suspected timing chain problem. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. If so any issues from the dealer? What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. 47. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. Forum Software Specific Help. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. The possible cause. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . Once tted, with the actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). Raise the hood. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. 48. Its behind the timing cover. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. The quote was 3k CAD. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. How did you confirm its the chain? Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. Don't give up. Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. Remove the old sealant and reseal. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. 17. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. It is brief, but still there. 1 cylinder. Check "Remember Me?" Reinstall the EVAP canister purge valve bracket. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. I'm going to look more into this weekend. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Wow does the truck run better! Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. JavaScript is disabled. 15. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. "You can do good or you can do well. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. You may onto something here. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Advanced Search . I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. check out the. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". See if you hear it from outside. In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. By Engine Builder. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. !This is not a sponsored video. Mark the timing chain at the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. The timing chain. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. IMO the timing chain is an integral part of a fully assembled long block's valve train. 45. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Car won't start. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. How long should an average timing chain last? 1 cylinder. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? MI5. have a rattle on start up of engine. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. Submit! I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. No codes/DTC? Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. 28. BMW says the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance., The engine timing chain and oil pump drive chain module limited warranty extension to 7 years/70,000 miles (as determined by the vehicles original in-service date) for defects in material and workmanship applies to eligible US-specification BMW vehicles that are registered, operated, and have their covered repair . Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. You might try adjusting it. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. JavaScript is disabled. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. 37. One is a rattle on startup. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 31. With premium diesel, you have a lot to lose, and nothing to gain. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. 5 rocker shaft holder. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Up to 50% of turbocharger failures are due to oiling problems. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. Secure the tape with a wire tie. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. To make a long story short, two of the . But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. I think that might be a bit excessive. Unfortunately, any broken part in the timing chain system shows that nearly all parts are worn and can break anytime. He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt 12. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. I see a trade in very soon. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. 18. Remedy: I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. . Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. First of all, you should make your mechanic check.
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